FAQ: YELLOW PAGES


YELLOW PAGE ADS FOR THE PRIVATE

INVESTIGATOR
TO BE OR NOT TO BE--THAT IS THE QUESTION-
HERE ARE SOME ANSWERS!

Compiled from posts anmd responses from the
PRIVAT-EYE MAILING LIST
Compiled And edited By Ralph D. Thomas

We all need to advertise and market and the different ways we do that depends on how successful or unsuccessful our agency is. The question is often asked, should a private investigative agency advertise in the yellow pages. The compilation of these reponoses including my own were triggered by the following post on the private-eye mailing list (and this should give you an idea of the value of the list if you don't already subscribe)

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John Shidler <jshidler@iAmerica.net >wrote:

I usually just lurk around in the shadows ...(a good PI perhaps?) but I have a question. I just signed up for an 1/8 page of display advertising in the "real yellow pages." Having been in business for a year, I have no experience with the yellow pages. Since the cost is $350. a month, I am little concerned. The saleman assures me that I WILL get calls.

A quick in the book, has one guy with a 3/4 page that costs $1500.00 a month, geez..... I know that he is esentially a 1 to 2 man show, is the ad generating the quality and quanity of work to jusitfy this kind of expenditure? Any comments would be greatly appriciated.

A) draw the reader's eyes to the page and

B) make the reader want to call YOUR number as apposed to calling
someone else listed on the page.

4) It has been my experience from studying and watching placement of yellow page ads under the headings of private investigators and detectives in the USA is that the guy who purchases that full page ad, five times of of seven will be out of business next year. One once told me he purchased the bigger ad to alarm his competition--that's a very expensive way to do such a thing and isn't what yellow page ads are designed for-they are only designed to make someone call your telephone number.

5) Salesman always "assure" you you will get calls--they know nothing about this business nor how we get clients, and quite frankly, their only goal is to try and sell you the biggest ad that they can. I bet that salesman wanted you to get a "big" ad because that's what the "competition" is doing. The question should not be "will you get calls". The question should be "will you get calls that convert to paying clients and enough paying clients from the ads to justify the $350.00 per month cost." You will get calls-some of them will be from wirdos and hopefully some that really want to hire a private investigator and TONS of them that are job seekers.

6) You can tell which ads are working and which ones are not by going to the library and looking at old phone books to see if the same guys ran the same ads and the same size ads last year and the year before.

7) Examples of three known yellow page ads that work:

BOB BROWN- BROWN AND ASSOCIATES-ORLANDO FLORIDA
(Has run the same basic ad for well over ten years)

AMERICAN DTECTIVES- Austin, Texas
(Has a very successful professionally designed ad-has run for three years)

NICK BELTRANTE AND ASSOCIATES-WASHINGTON D.C
(Has always run yellow page ads but the DC area seems to be the
one geographical area that is the exception to any rule in this business)

Neither of the three ads are the largest ones, all had been professionally designed by professional yellow page ad response graphics ad designers. The first two specialize in domestic cases---that alone should tell you a great deal. Beltrante specializes in more than just domestic cases but gets a lot of them and he gets some very big ones (diplomates--that sort of thing)

8) All in all-90% of yellow page ads placed by private investigators are failures.

9) A very small percentage of overall private investigative agencies place ads in the telephone book mainly because their individual client base is geared towards other professionals such as insurance companies and law offices and law firms and those people aren't in the habit of letting their fingers do the walking for such services. That doesn't mean it isn't for all private investigative agencies-it DOES mean that it is a poor place for advertising for the cliental profile mentioned above (lawyers and insurance companies) The best place to advertise your services to those two professions are: Lawyers-the local bar journal Insurance-the insurance claims journals.

10) In our NAIS study, we attempted to learn if successful private investigative agencies advertised in the phone book. What we found was that ONLY those agencies who wanted the private citizen consumer type investigations did so over a long period of time.
Hope this helps.


Ralph Thomas
National Association Of Investigative Specialists
http;//www.pimall.com/nais

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John,

Yellow Page Advertising (for any business) can generally be said to be a good part of an overall marketing "mix". After all, where do you go when you're looking for a new service in your area?

Being somewhat experienced with yellow page ads in general and having had some in all sizes (different industry), it requires a small amount of analysis on your part to determine what's best for you.

A couple of things for you to consider:

1. How much business do you have now? How much MORE can you handle? How much do you need to earn per advertising dollar spent? If after examining your overall marketing budget and business requirements, you determine, for example, that you can handle $3000 per month more in business, and you can only budget 10% of that towards marketing, it wouldn't make sense for you to spend more than $300 on a yellow page ad. You never want to spend more than

YOUR CEILING BUSINESS INCOME divided by YOUR ADVERTISING ROI (return
on investment) PERCENTAGE.

2. Classicly, any new or changed ad has a ramp-up period of a couple months. Ask yourself if you have the additional money to invest for 2-3 months of yellow page ad without optimal return. You won't get the same number of calls at first as you will after it's been around for a few months.

In general, most people will tell you that yellow pages are a good form of advertising, given the above considerations of course, unless you have an unusually low ad budget-to-profit ratio. Your "1 or 2 man show" may very well rely completely on their yellow page ad for business and be able to handle the amount of business they generate. They may have the budget to wait through the ramp up period, and they may just be heading for a big growth spurt.

The bottomline is- you WILL get calls and with a little planning, you can even get the RIGHT amount of calls. Once you start your yellow page campaign, it would be a good idea (always is anyway) to ask eople who call in how they heard about you. Even if you don't keep track of it on paper, it will give you a feeling of how your entire marketing program, including your yellow page ad, is working for you.

Good Luck!

--
Best Regards,

Patrick
ray.normandeau@factory.com (Ray Normandeau)

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Ralph:

Your insight shown here-above and that shown in other messages is I think a remarkable thing, in that most people in business for themselves don't know what they are doing when it comes to marketing their services.

You have essentially debunked Yellow Pages.

Although not a PI, I would suspect that Martinadale-Hubbel is another good place to advertise. I had used MH when doing research on a lawyer (the office of Court Administration (NYS) gave me the leads that were the most fruitful).

In my line of work (performing arts services) I think that I am one of the few, along with my wife, who make a living at it; because we know how to promote ourselves in a manner which gives us a high return for the money spent.

I once was the Assistant Manger for Promotional Materials for the Ideal Toy Corp (c. 1963). My department was part of the Advertising and Sales Promotional Department. I learned that multi million dollar companies didn't throw away money on advertising material. Neither do I! I also became quite familiar with advertising gimmicks used by pharmaceutical companies in reaching doctors. I use low cost gimmicks a lot. I sent out spiders for a Halloween mailing with a note that said:

For Trick or Treat laffs, place me at a co-workers desk.
We know that you don't like actors to bug you.
So I never telephone or otherwise interrupt you
but you can call me ANYTIME, 718-392-1267.

Our mailings usually bring in results that we are happy with.

PI's could use gimmicks such as magnifying glasses, microscopes (small toy plastic ones costing maybe ten cents each) in mailings. These with appropriate text could be sent to lawyers and insurance company people etc.

Then like pharmaceutical "detail" people, visits could be made where adverting specialties are left.

I have actors tell me that they see my material with our names in offices of casting directors and agents.

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I have known people in this business who have done very well with the Martindale-Hubbard Legal Directory and others who say they tried it, didn't like the response they got for the price of the ad and didn't go back in it. I have noticed over the years that there are not too many renewals from private investigators but this might be due to other reasons for not renewing. If I was in full time practice today, I'd likely try Martindale-Hubbard.

Ralph Thomas
NAIS

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Hello all:

I've been advertising in the yellow pages for the last two years. Last year it was just a bold listing, (not many cases resulted, although I was the only PI listed in my area). This year I'm trying an actual small inexpensive ad, (and I see that there is one other PI with an ad now too). I've made the decision that if it doesn't pay off this year, then I won't bother anymore, simple as that. Most of my cases are from attorneys anyway.

Just my .2 worth again.
Regards,
Julie Kuehl
Kuehl Investigations
Wisconsin Lic#15559
www.wi.centuryinter.net/whisper

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I did more by adding a 1-800 number in a one line listing than all the
yellow page ads before it that where 1/4 page.


Gary M. Wise, PI,
Badger State Detective Agency,
N2709 Hwy B, Kewaunee,
WI 54216, 800-400-4135
Member: Professional Association of Wisconsin Licensed Investigators (PAWLI)
National Association of Investigative Specialist (NAIS)
United States Process Servers Association

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That's intersting!
I tried an 800 number once and all it did was give me a HUGE phone bill with no increase in results so we stopped it. I guess it's all a matter of what you specialize in and who your clients are.

Ralph

NAIS

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Our experience with Yellow Pages has also been less than fullfilling. This year we have dropped our Yellow Page Ads. All we ever got, was the occasional distressed spouse price shopping for surveillance on a wayward one, and a couple of fruit cakes that wanted to find an estranged spouse, "just so we can talk". Not one business related lead that we can recall in over 3 years of Business Card size Yellow Page Listings. We will still be listed, as all business numbers are for Free. But not an ad. Also, arround here we have the "Talking Phonebook" a competitor to the Bell South Phone Book, that quotes lower prices. Sounds fairly good until you consider their circulation is miniscule compared to Bell South.

We have and continue to get many more clients from our Internet Presence, than the Yellow Pages ever dreamed of, for MUCH less than what we were paying for a Business Card Ad. Just our experience, your mileage may vary,
Rex Holder

Corporate Investigative Services
Huntsville, AL 35803
(205) 881-2598
http://www.hsv.tis.net/~pvteye
President - Northern Alabama Investigators Association

---

You say that you have already signed up for the ad so my comments won't make much difference but --- you will find that most of the business generated by the YP ad will be from the general public -- the headache kind of business that many PI's don't want. Your credentials and bio say that you want to do background work --- well that is not generally the kind of business generated by YP for a PI. You don't mention domestic cases and that is 90% of what a YP ad usually generates. My .03 cents worth.
Lee

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Just because you purchased the ad, doen't mean you can not cancel it before the phone book is published. One omre thing, make SURE you are getting in the REAL phone book! There are lots of so called "secondary telephone books" that sell you ads-some of which are almost deceptive because epople think they are getting in the telephone company telephone book and they are not.

 

Ralph

NAIS

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I am following this thread with great interest as I have been running a "double quarter column" for about $150 (Can) per month. This is the second year (in my second year of business) that I've been running it and I've only been getting my ad paid for as a result of calls, and not much more.The only thing that people seem to pick up on is the former police officer angle. I've chosen to specialize in Business and Financial Investigations as this is what I specialized in with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, so I wonder if this type of specialization is conducive to YP ads.

Calgary has a population of 800,000 and four pages of PI ads in the YP directory (is this typical?)

I'm thinking about pulling my ad next year and relying on referrals and targetted mailings, which is where I get most of my work, if I don't get a better response.

Any advice and/or copies of successful ads would be appreciated.

Regards, Dave Broughton

D.J. Broughton & Associates Ltd.
Box 76031, 240-70 Shawville Blvd. S.W.
Calgary, Alberta, CANADA
T2Y 2Z9
ph. (403) 254-6027
fax (403) 256-6472

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Hello everyone,

I agree with your last comment about "I WILL get calls". Yep, we get them in the morning and late at night --- weirdos, domestics, find my dog, what does a PI do, etc., type calls. 85% of the quality business we do comes from direct solicitation, direct mail, face-to-face calls, referrals (the best) and 12% comes from walk-in,call in from newspaper and YP ads. That 12% (and we use less than a calling card size ad) generates more headaches, collection problems, wasted consulting time, etc. 3% of what we do comes from sources that we can't track. Of the 85% work, 20% of that produces the majority of the income to our agency and business.

A quick in the book, has one guy with a 3/4 page that costs $1500.00 a month, geez..... I know that he is esentially a 1 to 2 man show, is the ad generating the quality and quanity of work

My questions here would be (1) how long has he been in business and (2) what sort of work does he look for or specialize in?

We do an ongoing survey of calls, both in the PI operation, Info Broker, and locksmith business. Each caller is surveyed as to how he/she decided to call our business. These facts are kept on computer. This is how we decide what to do with our advertising and sales activity. We also do a constant computer breakdown of sales according to accounts and cost of sales related to accounts. Our figures closely follow the national averages so their has to be some truth to this stuff. We found that the YP ads payed off for the locksmith business because we want to reach the general public 24 hours a day in an emergency. For the PI operation, it only brought problems. BTW: We also found that location and name was VERY critical in the ad results even with a small ad placed against a large, colorful ad.
Lee

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Keeping records--that's something I wish every office would do! Too many guys place an ad and then have NO information to track the results of that ad. That is, they have no idea what to repeat and what to stop that isn't working.


Ralph

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I just cancelled my Yellow Page Ad. I got lots of calls from it, but few turned into paying assignments. If you decide to cancel your ad make sure you do it in writing and send it to the phone company via certified mail(return receipt requested). The contract I signed had a clause in it that I could cancel up to two weeks before the print date, but it specified that it must be done in writing and sent certified mail. I can find better ways to spend $300 a month.
Bob Titus
--
TALON Detective Agency, Inc.
P.O. Box 898,
Mechanicsville, Maryland
Serving the Washington, DC
Metro area
http://pages.prodigy.com/TalonInc
301-274-9225
Fax: 301-274-5919
Licensed in the State of Maryland

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With all these negative "yellow page" posts, I finally had to speak up. I spend about $1000 a month on "yellow page" advertising (local and 800) and I get a direct return that I can document of at least 3 times that much, maybe more. I think the success of the ad depends on the number of other ads in the directory, size, and most important, content (the way it is written and eye appeal).
Just my 2 cents worth..........

Hershell
Hershell Johnston

http://www.bistar.com/detect/
Private Eyes Detective Agency
P.O. Box 32395 Knoxville, Tennessee 37930
Office (423) 690-0134 Fax (423) 670-1417
Worldwide Investigations & Information Retrieval
Affiliates or Agents Nationwide & 24 other countries

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MARKETING GURU COMMENTS!

EJPankau-advertising /marketing guru here! The best money you can spend on marketing is to target market to clients in their own trade publications. It goes directly to the clients you want, its current and you can cut it off or change it if it doesnt work the first time. (I have 3 different ads that I use and rotate them once in a while (If clients see the same ad every time, it becomes invisible). Bar journal magazines, courthouse reporter journals, local business journals and apartment or commercial management publications are all good ideas to consider, depending on what kind of work you do. (One article that I wrote for a leasing trade journal brought me a commercial leasing client that brought in a ton of money, for many years. Sooo, write articles, and then, take out the ad to complement the article if need be. Another great idea is to forget the advertising and find the source of business directly. Go to the courthouse and find lawsuits involving a company that you want for a client, Look up the name of the attorney that represents that client, call them and ask for an appointment to discuss how you can help him enhance his services to the client by using your services (Yes, it helps to do a little homework on the client and see what they do and need). Works every time!!!

Ed Pankau
EJPankau@aol.com

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I have been in the business over five years. I was slow in getting my marketing started, and began Yellow Page adveritsing two years ago. I placed a small ad in each of two directories in my area. Yes, I receive calls from an assortment of fruits and nuts, but also some good business to which I send my flyers outlining my services (I don't do surveillance or process). Although I do direct mail advertising to my targeted market, I do get some business through the YPA. I refer surveillance work to a friend in the area. My two ads cost about $175 per month total. I do get quite a few calls from out of state from the YPA, from people who call the Chamber of Commerce or GTE Information. But probably most of my business comes from direct mail advertising to a target market.

Don Pullen, LPI in Venice, FL
Member: FALI, NAIS

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One good point to remember about YPA is your goegraphical area. For example, the telephome book of places like New York City, Washington DC, Dallas Texas and LA get all over the place and in other places than the local calling area. Telephone books for small towns just don't.

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To Be In The Yellow Pages or not to be in the yellow pages, these answers came from posts in the private-eye mailing list. If you where already subscribed to it, you'd already have this information and hundreds of other topics. The private-eye mailing list is like a brain trust of ideas, information, sources and resources that are exchanged. I encourage you to join today.

 

My Best,

Ralph

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